First let's get this nonsense out of the way. Any peceived tone is
only an assumption. If I was angry, then I would say so. Did I? No.
It's not posted. Then it does not exist. However I am blunt about
solving problems - especially of a three light tester that will
somehow identify a noise problem.
That vacuum must be plugged into the same receptacle as your
entertainment system and still never create noise. Put that transient
into perspective. Others assumed a large transient. The numbers.
Large as in single digit volts. 120 volts spikes to 125 volts and
causes a loud pop? Is one component of the system designed
defectively OR are multiple components somehow improperly connected?
Post by PaulThe popping is so sporadic, that it's difficult to identify
exactly when.
Nothing new when solving noise problems. Making a rare noise
repeatable is essential and often difficult. Noise from an appliance
is somehow carried electrically into your system. Which is the
incoming and which is the outgoing wire (both are required for noise
to exist)? A spike that the power supply for every component should
eliminate. A spike so small as to be called noise. Is the noise
being carried into your system via the safety ground wire (as GregS
mentions)? Safety ground bypasses the power supply and filtering. But
then what is the outgoing electrical path? Again, this is why the
problem must be repeatable so that is can be traced to a component or
a unique interconnection of components.
In testing, remember some concepts. Signal grounds are not same as
the safety ground even though both may be connected. Only signal
ground should interconnect components. Chassis (safety) ground may
interconnect chassis. But must remain separate from signal grounds.
Another example to better understand what testing must discover - or
why that testing must be meticulous about what and when anything is
disconnected or changed.
Why does noise happen one time and not another? AC sine wave
repeats every 16 milliseconds. At what point during that sine wave
does a disconnect occur? If switch opens at the right time, then
noise is created. When not, no noise. So your testing device may
only create one spike every (what) five power offs. Tedious? Of
course. EMC testing may be tedious.
Monster Cable was cited as an example of a 'magic box' solution.
Monster Cable is selling the same solution as in other lower price
'magic boxes'. For example, assume the hall vacuum creates a massive
10 volt spike on 120 VAC. 120 volts plus 10 is 130 volts. The
Monster Cable protection may state 330 volts on its box. That means
doing nothing until voltage exceeds 330 volts. Where is that number
that claims a solution? Meanwhile, it connects your system directly
to AC mains with nothing between a wall receptacle and system except
the 'magic box's circuit breaker.
To actually filter noise, well, those products are available from
Brickwall, Surgex, and Zerosurge. View prices for filters that
actually do what others recommend. That assumes noise is entering on
black or white wire; not via green 'safety ground' wire. Green wire
bypasses the filtering.
This noise does not always occur. Well, that implies some filtering
is sufficient when the noise is less. Question remains whether one
component is missing sufficient filtering or whether signal
interconnections are compromising that filtering. Has something
inside your equipment failed? Maybe. But we are far from even asking
that question yet. First establish what is and is not necessary to
create (recreate) noise. Trace noise to some unique part or
combinations of parts. We know this. Component design should make
noise irrelevant.
Finally, speculated is one wiring problem, more common in newer
buildings, that creates electrical noise. Some take the easy way by
wiring wall receptacles with each wire pushed in the back rather than
wrapped around a side screw. When the plug is removed from the
receptacle, then that rear wire intermittently disconnects. Noise
created by 120 volts dropping to zero during receptacle movement.
Short power loss. No problem for lights. But a problem for
electronics that may be connected farther down that circuit. A
problem not due to old wiring. In this example, a problem directly
traceable to a human who did not wrap each wire around the receptacle
screw. One can quickly identify this unique problem by removing
receptacle cover plate - visual inspection. That wire should be
obviously wrapped around each side mount screw so that all wires
remain firmly connected.
This 'speculated' noise problem would occur when a hall vacuum power
cord is removed from the wall receptacle and when other appliances
down that circuit are drawing current. Again, is finding this problem
easy? Of course not. But that is why we find (recreate) the problem
long before solving it (ie. buying Monster Cable or other solutions).
Recently traced a problem over many months that was finally located
in a furnace system. Not even on the same circuit. Not always
reproducible. Solution found by first identifying the source or
unique configuration that makes the noise problematic. EMI/RFI
intermittent problems are often that difficult. 'Magic box' solutions
that are not expensive are usually wasted money. Many expensive
'magic boxes' (ie Monster Cable) do almost nothing - are the same
inexpensive device selling for massive profit. Stick to facts.
Post by PaulYou wrote to me...
----"You stated something about upgrading to better equipment. Is
it? Is it better only because it was more expensive - ie products
from Monster Cable? Does newest equipment have inferior noise and
surge suppression circuits."
If i read you correctly, you're assuming i upgraded equipment to try
to solve my problem. On the contrary, i was responding to another
poster's question. He asked me if my set-up had changed while in the
apt. As my response, i stated that over 9 years, i have upgraded
various components at various times. (as opposed to adding a host of
additional components). The kind of upgrading i mean is to a better
amp with more inputs, better sound (from component to DVI, etc), as
well as to different sounding speakers, DVD player w/more options, or
simply to replace a broken component. But that's over the course of 9
years. Saying i upgraded has NOTHING TO DO with trying to solve the
problem.
That all having been said, ALL my home theater equipment i currently
have is the same i've had for more than 2 years, and NONE of it has
changed in those last 2 years or so. Remember, the problem only
started a couple months ago.
Also, regarding Monster Cables, I simply used their brand name as an
example, stating the types of products they were selling. If you
couldn't tell by the tone of my words "whatever that means" at the end
of mentioning their products, it was meant to imply a bit of suspicion
as to their viability. Nevertheless, the point was only to say that
those types of products are out there (regardless of who makes them),
and was wondering as to what exactly they do. Besides, i'm not trying
to improve an imagined "deficiency" (which i think is what some of
those products are designed for). I'm trying to solve an actual,
audible problem.
Obviously, solving the problem comes after identifying the problem.
But i felt that was implied in the initial post. By stating what was
happening, i assumed people would know (which the rest of the
responders seemed to) that i was trying to identify the problem first.
Then, inform me of possibilities, followed by solution attempts. For
instance, once poster suggested a voltage meter. That would go toward
identifying the problem first...as you said. But, since i don't know
what's causing the problem, i was hoping to get advice on this board
from others who might be able to lead me in the right direction. If i
knew exactly what the cause of the problem was, i probably wouldn't
need as much help in solving it.
As for saying how "none of my responses had anything to do with the
problem," i'm assuming you're just not following the thread, because
all i was doing was answering questions other posters had asked
me...the vacuum thing, the age of the building, what's changed, etc).
All of that was in response to other's questions.
And as far as the vacuum in the hallway, the outlet that maintenance
plugs into IS connected to my outlet in my apartment. The one in the
hallway is directly opposite one in my apartment wall. I would assume
they are connected to the same circuit. Why wouldn't they be?
They're directly across from each other, about 4 inches apart.
The popping is so sporadic, that it's difficult to identify exactly
when. Granted, i can do as you suggest, and run a series of tests, as
for what is turned on, and which switches cause the most noise.
However, conditions of the setup are almost always the the same. I
almost always have every component on at once (tv, dvd, dvr, and
receiver). It is during those time when it randomly happens, and then
the next time, it doesn't. Sooooooo...that begs the question Tom.
Are you suggesting that part of my equipment is broken, and not
functioning as it had before the problem?